JUANA SUMMERS, HOST:
From the Colorado Rockies to the Redwood forests of California, there are millions of acres of land - forests, grasslands, desert and tundra - managed by the government. Much of this public land is under the jurisdiction of the Bureau of Land Management and the U.S. Forest Service. It's also a vast expanse of territory that ranchers use for cattle grazing. In a recent investigation, reporters found that the wealthiest ranchers benefit most from these public lands, and they write that it's taxpayers who pick up the tab. We're joined now by investigative journalist Jimmy Tobias, one of the reporters who broke the story for High Country News. Welcome.
JIMMY TOBIAS: Thank you for having me.
SUMMERS: Jimmy, I just want to start by asking you briefly about the history. How did the system come about of government permits to graze on public land?
TOBIAS: Yeah. It was born out of the New Deal era, really, as these Depression-era dust storms kind of rolled over the Great Plains. Franklin Roosevelt and his administration signed into law of the Taylor Grazing Act that sort of erected this public land grazing system in which ranchers are provided with 10-year permits to access these vast landscapes of the West at very low cost.
SUMMERS: So grazing on public land is, like, a lot cheaper than on private land. You say in your piece that it's about 90% cheaper. Why hasn't the government brought up the prices?
TOBIAS: That's a great question. Yeah. In essence, ranchers pay about $1.35 to feed a cow and a calf on public lands for a month. That low figure has barely changed in decades. So, like, industrywide, the $21 million collected from ranchers by the BLM and Forest Service last year was about 284 million below market rate for grazing forage last year. And, you know, there have occasionally been efforts to bump the grazing fees, but often there's political pushback, and so this is endured. And really, this program is a very large subsidy to public lands ranchers.
SUMMERS: In your piece, you list some really high-profile billionaire ranchers - people like Murdoch, Rockefeller - household names we all know. How do they benefit from the system?
TOBIAS: Yeah. Well, you know, the program was kind of built in the New Deal era to support, I think, in general, smaller ranchers. But in this day and age, many of the largest ranchers are corporations, agribusinesses or billionaires like the ones you mentioned. And they benefit because in addition to those very low cost of grazing, you know, there are also all these subsidy programs - things like drought and disaster relief, funds for range improvements, reimbursements if their livestock are preyed on by wolves or cougars. And we calculated that, in 2024, the federal government poured at least 2.5 billion into subsidy programs that public lands ranchers can access. And in many parts of the country, you know, it's also causing significant environmental degradation.
SUMMERS: So I know that you reached out to ranchers big and small over the course of your reporting. What did you hear from them?
TOBIAS: Yeah. We heard a wide range of things. I mean, one of the things we heard is that, you know, it's often very costly and difficult to, you know, implement the best sort of environmental protection measures because of the economic pressures they face. We also heard that, you know, many of the smaller ranchers would likely go out of business if they weren't able to access some of these subsidies. You know, we also heard questions about whether some of these wealthiest ranchers should be getting subsidized.
SUMMERS: You write that the Trump administration plans to make this ranching permit system more generous - so opening up even more acreage. And I know that you reached out to the Trump administration in your reporting. What did they have to say about this system?
TOBIAS: You know, they didn't really provide a lot of substantive comment. But again, we were able to access public records and look into the political appointees who's sort of shaping policy. You know, one of the most influential political figures at the Interior Department, which oversees much of this public lands grazing, is herself a rancher and a very prominent attorney for ranching groups. And they've spent a lot of their time - you know, the administration has spent a lot of its time this first year rolling back conservation rules that the public lands ranching industry opposes.
SUMMERS: Jimmy, based on your reporting, where do you see the system headed?
TOBIAS: Most likely, it's going to sort of remain in gridlock, as it has. But I think it's important for the public to understand, you know, the face of the system today, that, you know, it is disproportionately benefiting some of these really large or wealthy ranchers, and that it's causing significant environmental degradation in many parts of the West. Those are issues that I think the taxpayers should know about because, you know, they're on the hook for this program at the end of the day.
SUMMERS: Jimmy Tobias is an investigative journalist and one of the coauthors of a new piece for High Country News and ProPublica. It's called "The Wealthy Profit From Public Lands, And Taxpayers Pick Up The Tab." Thanks so much, Jimmy.
TOBIAS: Thank you. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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