STEVE INSKEEP, HOST:
United States officials are talking about the ceasefire and the war with Iran. Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth spoke with reporters this morning, and he claimed victory.
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PETE HEGSETH: President Trump forged this moment. Iran begged for this ceasefire. And we all know it.
INSKEEP: To be clear, we don't. What is known is that there is a ceasefire. President Trump made apocalyptic threats in recent days and then backed off. The president agreed to a two-week pause in fighting to allow negotiations, but there are real questions about who agreed to exactly what. Also, Iran today has fired missiles, and Israel has carried out attacks in Lebanon. Israelis say the Lebanese part of this war is not part of the ceasefire. In a moment, we'll talk with a former commander of U.S. military operations across the Middle East. We begin with NPR White House correspondent Franco Ordoñez. Franco, welcome back.
FRANCO ORDOÑEZ, BYLINE: Thank you.
INSKEEP: OK, so what do you make of this dramatic change?
ORDOÑEZ: Yeah. I mean, it is quite the walking back from his bombastic post yesterday and actually over the weekend when Trump used the F-word, telling Iran to open the strait. You know, Trump wrote on social media that he made the decision based on conversations with the prime minister of Pakistan. Trump said the U.S. received a 10-point proposal from Iran, which Trump described as a workable basis on which to negotiate, though the details do remain fluid. He did add some details, though, about the deal on Wednesday morning, claiming the deal would include no enrichment of uranium and said the U.S. would be working with Iran to, quote, "dig up and remove" all of that deeply buried nuclear material in the mountain. He also said the U.S. is talking tariff and sanction relief with Iran.
INSKEEP: Really interesting to hear the president say there is discussion of nuclear material because we hadn't heard that as part of this deal before. How significant overall is this?
ORDOÑEZ: Oh, absolutely. I mean, it's very significant, especially if they get to that nuclear material. And we should be clear, though, that Trump is often using kind of this belligerent language that the threats, frankly, that he made over the last 72 hours were really breathtaking in how, you know, scary they were. It's, of course, never a bad thing to kind of avoid the dire scenario that Trump was describing. But by backing down, Trump also, you know, risked damaging his own credibility. I mean, he's likely to face some criticism, even more so now that, you know, he has a reputation of backing down from some of his most flattening rhetoric.
INSKEEP: OK. So the Iranians have proclaimed that the basis for these negotiations are the Iranian proposal. To what extent has the United States signed on to that proposal?
ORDOÑEZ: Is a proposal that's really just still in the works. I mean, Trump again said this was something to work with but hasn't necessarily agreed to it. You know, Trump is meeting today with NATO Secretary-General Mark Rutte - of the White House, where this is expected to be a big part of the discussions. You know, Steve, Trump clearly wants this war to end. Trump later posted that the ceasefire was a big deal for world peace. But Trump also says the military is going to be, quote, "just hanging out" to enforce the deal. So we'll see what happens over the course of the next two weeks. I mean, it's potentially a really ugly cycle.
INSKEEP: I don't get the sense, Franco, that this is exactly where the president expected to be when he launched this war more than a month ago.
ORDOÑEZ: No, I agree. I mean, I think Trump really underestimated Iran's resilience. I mean, that is the take of many analysts, including Nate Swanson, who worked on the Iran portfolio in the Obama administration and the early Trump years. He told me that Trump took this position that if he put enough pressure on Iran, that eventually they would capitulate.
NATE SWANSON: And in some ways, Iran's, you know, obviously weakened, and they've been struck however many - 25,000 times or whatever the number is now, you know, but they're - strategically, they have a new pillar of their security architecture that didn't exist before this war. And so in some ways, they're stronger.
ORDOÑEZ: Yeah. I mean, he's talking about the Strait of Hormuz, of course, which he says is a much more tangible way to inflict immediate pain on the U.S. and global markets, and even in Trump's post seems to acknowledge that Iran now has the power over the strait. It's a new tool on their arsenal.
INSKEEP: NPR's Franco Ordoñez. Thanks so much.
ORDOÑEZ: Thanks, Steve. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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