EMILY KWONG, HOST:
This week marks four years since Russia's full-scale invasion of Ukraine began, four years where the reality of war has highlighted Ukrainian resilience while also forcing so many to cope with unimaginable loss. For civilians and soldiers in Ukraine, dealing with that loss, with injury, displacement and, in many cases, death is an ongoing struggle unto itself. Father Andriy Zelinskyy is a priest who has seen the spiritual impact of the war up close as a chief deputy for the military chaplaincy in the Ukrainian Catholic Church. Father Zelinskyy joins us now from Kyiv. Welcome.
ANDRIY ZELINSKYY: Hello, Emily. Great to hear you here in Kyiv.
KWONG: It's been four years since this full-scale war in Ukraine began. What comes to mind when you think about this reality that you and your fellow Ukrainians have been living through?
ZELINSKYY: Maybe the first thing that definitely comes to my mind when I think about the last four years is that human reality is a very fragile thing. The world that we created is a fragile thing. It can easily crumble, but it totally depends on us humans, on our dedication to certain values, virtues. And if we forget about this, like, the whole reality can crumble overnight. This full-scale horror, once again, tells humanity - not only to us people in Ukraine - that what we've been constructing for centuries can easily crumble if we neglect our humanity.
KWONG: I want to talk about your work as a military chaplain, which is a very particular role. You know, you've been on the front lines speaking with and guiding soldiers for years now. What insight have you gained about war through that work?
ZELINSKYY: You can witness human suffering dressed in a military uniform. But also, you have to deal with the family of the fallen soldiers. You have to deal with their kids and their parents. You have to deal with the totally crushed, sometimes, personalities in military hospital, sometimes wounded but still full of spirit and ready to go and fight again. We've been dealing with unthinkable, and that's our reality. And it is only due to the human spirit that is able and capable to fight through all these horrors, all the injuries and all these devastating facts of war.
KWONG: Yes, the strength of the human spirit - in your ministry, are there any moments where that spirit has really emerged for you, moments you think about that you've witnessed from others? What's stayed with you?
ZELINSKYY: Well, I can remember a guy who was almost totally lost after a number of losses in his family. Because remember, please, in Ukraine, while our soldiers are fighting the front line, their families are exposed to being hit by the missiles daily. They're endangered as well. So to me, personally, this case when one of our military lost his whole family, but then he went back to the front line for the sake of other families.
KWONG: He went back to fight, even though he didn't have to after losing his whole family.
ZELINSKYY: Yes. He lost everything in his life. And this could be the end of his personal journey, but he understands that if he stops, then so many others can lose their families, their own lives. So I remember a mother who lost two sons and then lost husband in this war. Now she stays, and now she helps as a volunteer to provide for the soldiers. There are, like, thousands of these stories, heartbreaking stories. But we can create a better world just as easily as we can destroy it. So it's all in our spirit. This is maybe, once again, one of the greatest lessons from my ministry, from what I've been witnessing these years.
KWONG: I imagine you've seen how war can bring about a crisis of faith for people - asking, you know, where is God in this? What have you seen out there on both sides of the spectrum - coming into faith or doubting it at this time?
ZELINSKYY: A war changes human perspective. So it changes our priorities. Those things that were very important to us yesterday - poof - they just lose their value, like richness, like - I don't know - like social status. I mean, they have no place - the battlefield, they disappear completely and totally. Nobody cares about that. But, for example, fraternity, friendship - I found many people who came and asked, you know, for baptism or confessions under bomb shelling. Of course, all these things we chaplains in Ukraine experienced a lot.
KWONG: What is one ritual or practice you've done most days? Would you care to share that with us?
ZELINSKYY: Well, daily meditation - that's important - by scripture reading. But if we speak about something very concrete and very practical, because at times your mind is distracted by what's going on around you so you need to fix it, and lighting a candle and just watching the candle while praying or simply trying to fix your mind - I like candles, so it helps me a lot.
KWONG: Wow. Eventually, this war, Father Zelinskyy, will end. We don't know when, but it will. And do you ever think about what your life will look like or what you'd like to focus on when that day comes?
ZELINSKYY: A repeated constant theme that the future of Ukraine, the future of our country today sits in the trenches and in our schools, at the school desks. Thoughts or reflections about our future is - yes, No. 1, we have to secure our survival and our future existence, and that's what our military do. But almost all of them have their families and their kids. So to take care of this precious treasure that we're trying to safeguard, to defend and to invest into our future, our schools, our universities, our youth - that's important issue as well when we speak about the future of Ukraine.
KWONG: The next generation, the younger generation. Yes.
ZELINSKYY: Absolutely.
KWONG: Father Andriy Zelinskyy is chief deputy in Ukraine's military chaplaincy service. Thank you so much for speaking to us.
ZELINSKYY: Thank you.
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