MICHEL MARTIN, HOST:
The allegations of sexual misconduct surrounding Congressmen Eric Swalwell and Tony Gonzales raise questions about the workplace culture on Capitol Hill. For decades, Congress excluded itself from many of the same labor laws it imposed on the private sector, including parts of the Civil Rights Act. Although that's no longer the case, some say that is one reason accountability for bad behavior can still be elusive in the legislative branch. We're going to speak with James R. Jones about that. He is a professor at Rutgers University who researched working conditions on the Hill for his last book, "The Last Plantation: Racism And Resistance In The Halls Of Congress." Professor Jones, welcome. Thanks for joining us.
JAMES R JONES: Thank you, Michel.
MARTIN: Look, it wasn't until 1995 that Congress adopted what many would consider basic workplace protections like a minimum wage. Are there ways in which Congress is still catching up to the private sector when it comes to things like keeping workers safe and preventing discrimination? I think people may forget something like 15,000 employees work for the House and the Senate.
JONES: Certainly. Congress is really left behind, right? So I used the plantation metaphor in my book to really think about how Congress is a really - an institution from the past. We have to remember that congressional offices are political institutions first and workplaces a distant second, right? So they operate like personal fiefdoms. They have small, intimate teams built around hero worship of a member, and a staffer's entire career can depend on one person's goodwill. And that structure makes misconduct really easy to commit and nearly impossible to challenge, right? And so it's really hard for Congress to come up to the future with other, you know, different organizations who have adopted more safeguards to protect their workers.
MARTIN: Your book focuses on how racial discrimination has flourished in Congress. What about sex or gender discrimination? Did you see parallels there?
JONES: I certainly see parallels. These are one and the same problems, right? So when Congress excluded itself from the 1964 Civil Rights Act, it was excluding itself from, you know, requirements to - against racial discrimination and gender discrimination. I talk about this in my book, right? As the country was moving forward in the future, in this era, Congress was still openly discriminating, right? So job ads...
MARTIN: Like, give an example of that. Yeah.
JONES: Yeah.
MARTIN: How did that work?
JONES: So jobs ads in the 1970s openly advertised for, let's say, a position, but they said only a white girl, right? They would say white, but no pantsuits. One interesting ad was looking for a typist, and they said they should be attractive, smart and young. One Republican looked for a staffer and says, doesn't have to be a looker, right? So even though, you know, Congress would eventually comply with federal antidiscrimination laws, there's still this sexist culture that thrives on Capitol Hill.
MARTIN: And when you - you interviewed a lot of legislative branch employees when writing your book, which is not always easy to do because...
JONES: Yeah.
MARTIN: ...As you said, there's a culture that really demands loyalty and discretion. What did they tell you about their experiences seeking accountability if they experience mistreatment?
JONES: Well, it's really hard when a member controls your next job recommendation, your professional network and your entire future. So silence becomes rational. So there's this culture of not speaking out because you know that it could really have a devastating impact on your career and your family's livelihood.
MARTIN: Do you think that - you know, Congress has updated its workplace protections a couple of times since it passed that Congressional Accountability Act in 1995. In the wake of these allegations, do you think it's time for another update or at least better enforcement?
JONES: Yeah. I think both. I think, you know, Congress, in 2018, passed the ME TOO Act, which amended the Congressional Accountability Act. And so now we know if there is an incident and if there is a settlement, but this information is still really, really vague, right? The public will really know the not - really not know the details of what's going on in these cases.
MARTIN: Professor James R. Jones directs the Center for Politics and Race in America at Rutgers University. He's the author of the book "The Last Plantation: Racism And Resistance In The Halls Of Congress." Professor Jones, thanks so much for joining us.
JONES: Thank you, Michel.
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